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Episode 50: I’m Coming Home feat. Jacob Wolf

Imad Khan May 23, 2021 11


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Imad speaks to reporter Jacob Wolf on his exit from ESPN Esports and his return to Dot Esports.

Transcript:

SPEAKERS: Jacob Wolf, Imad Khan

Imad Khan  00:01

What’s up everybody this is FTW with Imad Khan, Imad Khan of Tom’s guide. And joining me today on this I’m coming home edition is Dot Esports’ is Jacob wolf.

Jacob Wolf  00:09

That still feels really weird to hear, but I like it. Thank you for having me about. It’s a. It’s odd to be introduced to Dot Esports once again, after all these years, but I’m super stoked about being back. So thank you for having me on the pod.

Imad Khan  00:22

I’m glad you’re soaked. In November of last year, ESPN announced a round of layoffs. Included in the round was ESPN Esports, Jacob probably the most prominent breaking news reporter in the space was like go along with Tyler Hertzberg or Emily Rand, and other editors and producers. Since then, Jacob has been fielding a host of offers but ultimately decided to go back to Dot Esports, the publication that hired him at 18, both Jacob and I worked at the daily.at the same time, we both have a ton of respect for Dot Esports as editor Kevin Morris, who acted as a mentor to us both. So Jacob First things first, why dot eSports?

Jacob Wolf  00:54

So yeah, you mentioned Kevin, I would say Kevin is a huge component of this entire process for me. You know, I think one thing, and I guess I’ll sort of like scope out and talk a little bit just briefly about the offers. So as I mentioned, in my medium post, I talked to more than 30 different publications and sports leagues and old media, new media kind of ranging the gamut startups about potentially coming on, I even had one conversation which I could potentially be a player agent. So yeah, I really like took every single conversation in the past few months. And in the end, what kind of resonated with me most is that a friend of mine who is very high up in the esports space, and used to be a top executive in a handful of manufacturing and electronics companies, said to me that like you have to go with people you trust. And you know, I had a lot of great opportunities put in front of me, we ended up narrowing it down in the end to three different places. And the other two had really different ideas of what I would do. And I enjoyed exploring all of them. But in the end, like, to me working with Kevin again, and working at Dot felt feels like it’s gonna be really comfortable. You know, I trust Kevin. Him and I were able to get a COVID safe outdoor coffee, about three and a half months ago, four months ago, in October, early October, before the ESPN news was out. And you know, he kind of just laid it on me over Facebook message. It was just like, ‘what if you came back to Dot would you would that even interest you?’ And I called him and told him what was going on, as you know. And as was mentioned in the Post piece, and I’ve said before, I was planning on leaving ESPN in January anyway, regardless of what happened with the layoffs. And so yeah, Kevin, and I like talk through it and what that would look like and the layoffs really made my life easier. There, there were some contractual clauses and other things that would make it a little bit more difficult to leave ESPN wasn’t super easy to break free if they didn’t want me to. But by essentially telling me and my colleagues, they didn’t want us there anymore. It made it really easy to leave. And I ended up leaving early I left about two weeks after the layoffs were announced. And I wasn’t scheduled to leave until actually tomorrow would have been my my last day January the fourth. So yeah, I you know, working with Kevin, and that prospect was really appealing. And I would say every conversation I had with him and with Riyadh, who is the CEO of the Gamurs Group, the ownership group behind Dot Esports. So much of it focused on content. A lot of the conversations I had in this process were like, here’s how much money we’re going to pay you and like here’s, you know what it looks like to grow within this company. But at the end of the day, a lot of the places I talked to couldn’t really focus on the content. The final three in this decision making process really did focus on content. And there were a few others that we had declined up to that point, who had also focused on content. But to me, it felt like, here’s the publication that I think has a really good foundation. I think if you go to Dot Esports calm, it’s almost like a utility. That was the word I used in a conversation with Riyadh and Kevin. You know, you load up Dot Esports calm and you can find everything that happened in a single day of esports every piece of news across every game title, right? It’s very comprehensive. It’s almost like a newspaper and a lot of ways. And I see that as a really good foundation to build upon and to really go back to a lot of what made Dot really special years ago in terms of original reporting. You know, they had so many great reporters go to that door Cody Connors, Patrick, hello, Neil, William Turton, Richard Lewis, Josh Raven, right. Like there’s so many people that have worked there before. And you know, I was very fortunate to be a part of that early in my career. And to me, like I want to go back and hone in on that, again with Kevin, who I think is as much of that process as anyone else. And I think that having the opportunity to both do what I want to do with an editor that I trust, who I think’s very excellent at what he does, and then also being able to build that environment for other writers. That is super, super exciting to me.

Imad Khan  05:02

One thing that you mentioned, I kind of want to compliment Kevin because I do consider him probably one of the most important editors that I had early in my career when I, you know, you and I kind of jumped into journalism at the same time. For you as a bit, kind of like after high school, I mean, early into college before he dropped out. And for me, it was after college. And he was one of those editors in which I’m sure you’ve had the editor that, you know, takes your copy takes your work kind of rewrites it and just publishes it. Kevin was one of the few editors that would is to kind of set you aside and work with you to try to help you improve and grow. And I just didn’t know editing could be done like that. And, you know, I, I will announce today that, you know, I’ll be starting a new editor role as well. And I plan on like, bringing a lot of that same value that Kevin brought to the esports space, because the esports space, in my opinion, are still needing for some, like high quality journalism that’s driven by strong reporting and good editing.

Jacob Wolf  05:54

Yeah, I think I tried to take a lot of what Kevin taught me. And as it grew at ESPN and learned from other editors, myself, pass it off to, you know, you had this experience, because we got to work together on some of the stuff you did at ESPN, and really just like trying to fuse those smarts and expertise and pass them on, right? Like passing them on to other people we were working with on a freelance basis, and the people who were on staff with us, too. But that ultimately was not my job. It was not a part of my job description, right? Like we had dedicated editors, we had a lot of editors at ESPN. And so it was their job to do that. And I but what I’m really excited about is being able to do more of that, right? Being able to give back to younger writers, less experienced writers, regardless of age. And really help them grow and develop, while also myself being a subject matter expert. You know, like, I’m in the weeds of reporting on esports every single day, I know the people I know the characters. And so it’s exciting to be able to blend those experiences and to do it from the person that to your point really taught me that editing could be done that way. You know, one thing that I missed about working with Kevin is that when I first moved out to Austin, and my first stint at Daily Dot and Dot Esports, like every single Friday, we would have a meeting, where do we go into the conference room, we’d go through everything I wrote that week, we’d go through, like what I was working on, and we’d like hash it out together. And that feels really good. But not only does it feel rewarding, right to know that you’re doing something well, if that’s positive meeting, but also in times where it wasn’t where I was writing poorly, or I wasn’t getting what I needed to do correct, that feedback was super helpful, because it made me want to grow. And so it’s exciting to be able to work with him again, I think, yeah, he’s got a pretty diverse editing team too, in terms of background and experience. And I’m excited to work with them, although I don’t know them as well as I know him. But I think that there are some really talented writers already in the Dot, feather in the cap, or feather in the cap, two feathers in the cap to say, that I’m looking forward to working with you. And I’m starting to talk to some of them over the past few days as we didn’t want this to get too far out of hand between sort of the small group that knew. But I am really, really stoked to be able to kind of merge those experiences and give back because it does matter to me, I think a lot of journalism as a whole involves sort of stepping on the people below you and ignoring them. I don’t like that. I like being able to sort of help everyone. I shouldn’t have to step on you to know that I’m better than you at what I do. I should just do a better job overall. That’s what color my my thinking right is like, I shouldn’t have to hurt someone to do better. I should just be doing better myself.

Imad Khan  08:34

Yeah, I mean, that’s kind of going into my next question. I mean, Dot Esports, we’ve had a bunch of their writers on this show before and they’re all great, but they’re all still very young. And they’re still kind of learning the ropes and in many ways. So Jacob, I mean, when it comes to this young, talented pool of writers, I mean, what do you want to impart on them? As? I mean, would you be their boss in a way?

Jacob Wolf  08:55

No, I will not be their boss. I don’t have any direct reports in my new role right now. Although I think that one thing that’s really been preached to me and explained to me by Riyadh, and to Kevin, is that this is a role of growth. So like, I hope one day that we do have an investigative department at Dot Esports. And I hope that I’m those people’s bosses. That would be fantastic. And I think that’s why you see the the title investigative lead as a part of that. Because for now, that means leading by example, right and being appear to these people. But I do think that in the future, there’s a world where like, we have maybe we have a freelancer or someone who’s excelling really well on the investigative side of things, and we want to extend a full time job offer to them and then they could come work for me. Like that’s totally possible. And it’s something we’ve discussed. So I’m not going to be anybody’s boss straight out the gate. But I do want to be collaborative to everyone that works at Dot  Esports right now. Like I said, I’ve started to get to know some of them more and more, for the ones that I didn’t already know previously. But yeah, to me, like I do want to be able to be collaborative, and help everyone One who are my colleagues, I think that there is something special there. And I think it’s also really like, what’s the testament here, right is that there’s been a ton of cycling of talent at Dot Esports, since you and I worked there, and also even before then, right? Like we were, we weren’t there when it started. We both came in two years into its life or three years into its life. And you look at that, and they’ve been successful through all of that. It’s been seven years, right? That since they watched in 2012, or seven or eight years, I guess, tech eight years technically. And you look at that, and to me, like that means something, right. There are many publications that last eight years in esports. And they’re doing it they’re not only doing it, but they’re finding ways to make it work and monetization and everything else. And like that, to me, was another big part of this cost analysis. Is to go into a place that has itself buttoned up on the business side of things, and not somewhere that’s like trying to figure out business while also trying to figure out editorial.

Imad Khan  10:58

The Washington Post, Noah Smith interviewed both you and Morris about the announcement. You know, in the Post article, you state that ESPN Esports is understaffed and spread thin. And that ultimately esports was the low priority for ESPN. A spokesperson for ESPN hit back by stating, quote esports@espn.com was by far our lowest traffic section, and was among the most resourced relative to traffic, and compared to other sections. Both considerations were factored into the difficult decision we had to make as a result of the pandemic’s impact on our business. We are still committed to esports as an opportunity to expand our audience. So first, what are your reactions with that statement specifically?

Jacob Wolf  11:36

Yeah, I mean, I said what I said, I think that the response that they gave, which I didn’t see until the article was actually posted, is that they don’t really understand necessarily that that esports is more than one game. Right? Like we were more staff than relative to traffic and everything else than say, the NFL or the MLB or the NBA doesn’t mean we had as many writers as those. But if you do the fractions, obviously, that’s correct. But in the end, like being a League of Legends expert, and being a Fortnite expert could not be more different. Right? So you have to look at it from a different perspective. We operated in 2020 with zero freelance budget, right? This is something I heard you and Aaron talk about as as ex-ESPN freelancers on this podcast, when the layoffs were made. We had no freelance budget. Being — having to spread ourselves that thin across that many games as three writers, myself, Tyler and Emily, and then Arda who would contribute on the writing side of things too, it was really difficult. So sure, you can say like, they can say that we had more staff, relative, but like, that’s not considering that each game has to have a unique take on it. And it’s really hard to cover more than one of them. You know, I think that for me, like I can cover five pretty effectively, which is League of Legends, Valorant, Call of Duty, Overwatch and Smash. And Counter Strike, too. Although I didn’t do as much of that at at ESPN. So I guess technically six. But it’s really hard to keep up with all six of those much less, you know, the 20 plus games that cover the esports beat. So I that’s a meant to be just read like they were considering esports to be a monolith. And honestly, I think that was part of the problem in the first place.

Imad Khan  13:14

You know, to me, it read a lack of taking responsibility for the failure that was ESPN esports because then I’ll be I’ll be critical now especially in the the vertical is, is folded. But when it first started off, there, there seemed to be a lot of strong editorial direction and making sure that they were covering all their spaces as well as possible by having a robust freelance budget. Now they’re freelance rates were never good. And if you want to hear about freelancers complaining about ESPN Esports do tune in to the episode a few a few back with Aaron Garst and I. But, you know, they were covering their bases, essentially. And because of financial hardships that were caused in 2019 where, you know, so much of the budget was kind of sucked dry. I mean, it was completely dry in 2020 and then you also took the editorial direction and ESPN Esports what I found really kind of bizarre. Because let’s say for you, I mean, I enjoyed your piece on Spider-Man: Miles Morales, but is that really leveraging your talent as an esports reporter?

Jacob Wolf  14:11

No, I mean, that was part of my frustration, right is that I was I said to management at the end of 2019 that I wanted to become a better feature writer. That was taken as me wanting to be more feature rather than reporter right me wanting to improve was taken that way. And I and I think that’s just wrong, right? Like I lost a lot of scoops, and part of this is me I’m not blaming blaming them all together, but I lost a lot of scoops because I was either on a show or prepping for one or writing something that didn’t have anything to do with with the scoop or with the news. And what bothers me right is is that I wanted to continue to break news, like that so much of what I did in 2017 and 2018 when we won awards this company in 2018 when I won my own, and That’s what I wanted to get back to. And like when I met feature writing, I meant like investigative, hard nosed stuff that uses the reporting that I kind of become famous for in one form storytelling and feature writing that way. Not writing features. And to be clear, I did really like the spider, a Spider-Man piece that you referenced. But at the same time, like, no, that could have been written by someone else. That wasn’t something that only Jacob wolf, the reporter in esports, who’s connected to all these big executives and teams and players, could do. And that’s what I want to do more of at Dot Esports. And I always felt that, frankly, some of that just didn’t happen. Because there was a lack of understanding of the subject and a lack of understanding of who I was and what I wanted to do and my ambitions. I would say, frankly, a lot of my ambition, this is just my personal perspective, a lot of my ambition felt like it was a hindrance at ESPN, not a good thing. Whereas, you know, working with Kevin previously and excited about working with him now. Like, I think that ambition is a good thing. Like me, being hungry should be a good thing. I’m young, I don’t burn out as easily. But I was really burned out from ESPN from doing a lot of things that I felt weren’t necessarily a good use of my time.

Imad Khan  16:15

Can you look back and recall the point in time in which ESPN Esports kind of jumped the shark, and from there, it was just like a point of no return?

Jacob Wolf  16:23

Hmm, it’s a good question. I, I don’t know if there was one specific point. I would just say that, you know, we, if you look at the the section, Darren Kwilinsky was the top editor for eSports 2016, 2017. And then that changed. Eventually, we had some changes, some were moved around and and Ryan Garfat came in. And and Ryan was in place but had a series of different bosses, too. He was reworked eventually. And then we had Elizabeth Baugh on the end. And but along the way, someone in that that higher up either their bosses or their boss’s boss’s boss, anywhere in the chain in between would change. And to me, it just felt like every time something changed, someone else had a different idea of how to do this. It didn’t feel like something like Dot has, from the outside in the inside, where there’s one person kind of guiding the ship and creating his vision, right or her vision. And you know, that to me, like, I understand people move on and do other jobs. But at the same time, it just felt like there wasn’t a lot of fluidity. And, you know, I maybe there’s a different perspective, and people disagree with me on that. But I don’t think there was one thing to remember, I just think it was like a erosion over time. And, like, ultimately, here’s what I can say like the way ESPN wanted to cover esports. And the way I wanted to cover esports were fundamentally different. And that’s why I was gonna leave anyway. And that’s fine. They can think about it however they want to, and they can say they’re going to continue to esports in esports, however they want to to. I mean, I think that will be more traditional sports coverage, traditional sports, esports coverage of Madden, NBA, 2K, etc. But I think there’s a huge audience here and League of Legends, Counter Strike, Valorant, etc. That’s not being served properly. And I’m really excited about doing that somewhere else. I was excited about doing it at ESPN, too. But I was only given so much rope to do that.

Imad Khan  18:25

And then what do you make of the claims that, you know, it was by being lowest trafficked? It was maybe seen as invaluable? Or, I mean, to what extent was that a mismanagement of esports, or in the esports vertical? Or is that just a lack of growth in the esports space and the audience that would want to read journalistic content.

Jacob Wolf  18:46

I mean, I do think that there’s a little bit of a reading problem in esports, although I think it’s slightly exaggerated, because oftentimes, it’s a lot of the content is on interesting. That said, I’ll put it this way, right? We struggled for a long time to get esports articles on page one. And for people who are unfamiliar with that, that is espn.com, with no other, no other things added to that. It’s their aggregated homepage. It’s their app, etc. A lot of the traffic that other departments got in the company came from that, came from having their articles listed on the front page. And we struggled for a really long time to get people interested in things other than stuff like Fortnite or giant investments by an athlete. Those were the two things that hit pretty consistently on page one. Whereas like the NBA department, or the NFL department had stuff on there every single day. I don’t think it was super important to be on page one, particularly because I think our biggest goal should have been rather than just getting traffic. It should have been well has these people actually be heard this, like have these people ever been to ESPN before? Are the people that are viewing the esports articles do they come to ESPN for anything else? And actually, we saw that a lot of the people that were coming, even if the number was smaller, that were coming to ESPN to read Esports articles did not read anything else on ESPN. To me, that’s a valuable stat. And it’s one that’s not really mentioned in their statement. Although I don’t think that’s their entire statement, and we’ll see. But yeah, I think that, like traffic is not everything. Traffic’s obviously important. It’s how you convert, but at the same time, like being successful in esports, selling sponsorships, etc, is far different than the way you do an international sports. And if we were able to take, you know, 10, small sponsorships a year to net our losses, like I think ultimately, we still all have jobs, or at least my colleagues would, and I probably would still be gone. But in the end, I think everybody else would add jobs. And that’s just unfortunately, not how they thought about things. You know, they they’re a company that likes big swings. And so be it. Right? Like, I’m not going to like rail on them for the way that they operate. I think that it doesn’t work in esports. But that’s fine. It works for them and other things. But yeah, I just felt like that statement was really short sighted, I think through the whole move to close and close ESPN, or espn.com’s esports department is really short sighted too. Because I can tell you, we were probably not losing more than one and a half to $2 million a year. And that’s nothing for a company like that, especially if it’s an investment in the long term.

Imad Khan  21:16

Well, you know, going back to Dot Esports, so somebody who is coming from ESPN, you had kind of this muscle in this might, that you honestly won’t have at Dot Esports. So I mean, what happens when you’re dealing with a major investigation, and suddenly you’re getting calls from lawyers and this and that, I mean, will Dot Esports have the muscle to back you up?

Jacob Wolf  21:37

I think so. I mean, it’s a thing that I have brought up to Kevin and Riyadh, multiple times, and I believe them and saying that they stand up for good journalism. I mean, I saw Kevin do it firsthand, with smaller characters than exists in the esports space now, but I saw him do it firsthand when I was working there the first time. And kind of the other part of that, too, is like, part of this decision and not going with a big publication. And you can guess, who some of the ones I talked to are, who have been interested in this space and write about the space. But part of doing this and not trying to pursue that more further, really hunkers down to a belief I have that the a fan or a reader being connected to a publication, that is going away. I actually straight up do not think that readers are is connected to publications, young readers, right, the 18 to 35 audience, I don’t think they care as much about the brand name as much they care about their writer, their favorite writers. I think they are incredibly connected to the people that they like. And you see this, at least with me, you see this about when I post about things, and this is not intentional. It’s just me posting about my life, but posting about things like giving back presents to my mom. Or for Christmas, right? And obviously, I grew up really poor. So that was something that really mattered to me, or like posting about my cat, right, like rescue a cat this year. And, and it being sort of a giant viral social media thread. Like people feel connected to me because I’m a human being and not a content robot. Whereas like a lot of the colleagues that worked in other departments at ESPN, and I’m not saying this offensively, but it’s just true is like, all they ever do is post on Twitter about their articles. I never post about anything about themselves. And I’ve recognized that the audience wants to know, Jacob Wolf, the person as much as they want to know, Jacob Wolf, the journalist. And so to me, like, I think that people are connected to me and I do have a firm belief that my audience will go with me to Dot Esports regardless of whether the ESPN name is intact or not, and I think if you look at the type of people who are responding to my announcement post, the the executives in this industry who I’m going to have to be covering respected too. Right? The CEO of energy responded and told me congratulations, the Vice President of the Overwatch league responded and told me congratulations, right? Like, there are big people in this thread who are telling me congrats. And I don’t think it matters whether or not I have the ESPN name, it will about getting in some doors, I’m sure. But it doesn’t mean I can’t call someone else up that I already know. And then get through the door anyway, because they know, you know, wherever I’m trying to go know the people I’m trying to get in touch with basically. So I think like my networks big enough at this point that like, I don’t need the ESPN moniker as much as I did four years ago.

Imad Khan  24:16

How important was traffic numbers at ESPN? Like how badly were editors demanding you to bring in a certain number of clicks? Is that were a demand at all? And then kind of like what are your goals in terms of like bringing in traffic to Dot Esports.

Jacob Wolf  24:30

So it wasn’t a goal given directly to me. But I will say and this is what’s really interesting about their statement and The Washington Post, is they actually told us that we 2020 traffic was the best traffic we had ever done, and it was a significant multiplier of what we had done in 2019.

Imad Khan  24:49

Interested

Jacob Wolf  24:50

So if you contrast that, versus I know some of that’s because we were doing more SEO friendly content, and some of that was because we were getting some more of that page one front page love that I mentioned earlier because we were doing more sort of broad general gaming content, around gaming releases and Fortnite and other stuff. So to contrast that versus like, what they said about being the lowest traffic vertical on the website, like, that’s, it’s a little crazy to me, right? And sort of, I don’t know, that mixed messaging, I guess I’ll put it that way. Um, at Dot, you know, I think that like, I’ve seen some under the hood. And I will say that they do a good job at SEO content. In particular, I think that, like they have pretty good traffic numbers, if you go look at Alexa, or any of the other things that are public that you can get your hands on. So to me, like, obviously, I want people to read my work. And it’s a goal, but like, I’m not thinking about how I get the most hits. I’m thinking about how I do the best journalism. And to me, when you compare, or when you look at like breaking news in particular, and big investigative scoops. People read those because they’re interesting. So I don’t think that like I have to do anything special to get people to click on the website. I think they will come because what I’m going to be writing is interesting, and they’ll want to read about it anyway.

Imad Khan  26:13

And just for our listeners, SEO means search engine optimization. So it’s kind of creating content that comes in through Google because Google’s a big driver for a lot of websites in terms of traffic and click rates.

Jacob Wolf  26:25

Yep. And if you and if you will get if you do a Google search for any topic any day, so you see somebody posts on Twitter about something in esports, you just search about that said topic, you’re pretty likely to find Dot Esports high up on that list on results. So they’ve they’ve optimized quite well and and ESPN, like we were there that happened for some things, but not as frequently as it does for somewhere like Dot, which I think is I think that’s a big thing. So…

Imad Khan  26:50

Yeah, you know what, another thing I’m curious about is that because of the financial might that ESPN had, you were able to go to Korea for like, you know, weeks at a time to cover Worlds. Or you were able to fly around the country around the world, really and do the kind of reporting that you needed to do. I mean, will you have that same level of flexibility now that you’re at a smaller publication?

Jacob Wolf  27:10

I hope so. We certainly have talked about travel and costs and everything. But it’s right now, like we’re still in the middle of a global pandemic, right? So that’s true. Yes. Like it’s top of mine about sending me to South Korea next week. We are trying to think about what we can do, while all of us are still at home, hell, like I live 25 minutes from Kevin and 10 minutes from Will, and not that far away from some of the other Austin, Texas based people on the staff and I can’t even see them, other than maybe an outside coffee like we had a few months ago. Right? Like, I can’t go into the office with these people yet. Because it’s not safe to do so. And so like, I can’t even go, you know, 10, 15, 20 minutes up the street and spend time with these people every day, much less go around the world. So it is not as much of a consideration right now. But yeah, like it’s something we’ve talked about. And I do you think that travel will be a part of my job, but I don’t think it will be as simple as just going to an event and covering set event, I do think it will be with purpose. So like if I have a story that I need to go flesh out and report in person somewhere, and I can make the case for why we should spend that money. I do think that that will happen.

Imad Khan  28:19

And then I guess final question here. Now that you know you’re you kind of are controlling the horse more at Dot Esports than you were at ESPN. How would an investigative story differ at a Dot Esports versus an ESPN?

Jacob Wolf  28:34

I mean, I think it will have a lot more endemic language to it. Generally, I mean, I tried to write for a broad audience. But sometimes at ESPN, we definitely had to use some language that was a little bit more explanatory, right? Because you’re assuming that it will be reaching someone potentially that has nothing, no clue that’s about what’s going on with esports, right? Like you kind of have to over Explain yourself a little bit. I don’t think that’s a bad thing, by the way, because I do like trying to make my work broad broadly consumable for everyone. Um, but that’s a good question. I don’t necessarily have the answer to that entirely. I mean, at ESPN they have a fantastic investigative department who do some really great work across traditional sports that I incredibly, like I admire completely. So I won’t have access to people like that. But I do think that Kevin is a fantastic editor in his own right, and has some real good investigative chops. And I got to see that firsthand while I was there, and have seen some of it since I’ve left. And so yeah, I’m excited about that. But I don’t have the exact answer of like, how they’ll look different. But I will say that, like my reporting is not going to change. The same quality of reporting I was doing at ESPN will be done at Dot Esports and I’m going to hold myself to that standard.

Imad Khan  29:46

Well, Jacob again, a major congratulations to you. I look forward to reading your reporting. And I’m just really excited for where Dot Esports will go next.

Jacob Wolf  29:55

Thank you, thank you much appreciate it.

Imad Khan  29:57

And that was FTW with Imad Khan. If you liked the show, please rate, subscribe and share. Full transcripts of the show can be found at ftwimad.com. To follow Jacob and all the work he’ll be doing at Dot Esports, you can find him @JacobWolf on Twitter. To follow me and my work over at Tom’s Guide, find me @Imad on Twitter. And Ron Lyons is our audio producer. With that, we’ll catch you guys next week.

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